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 Multiverse vs Other Engines

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rotello
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PostSubject: Re: Multiverse vs Other Engines   Tue 26 Mar - 9:32

You got a valid point there tichfuie. However, with our upcoming project, MV pros still outweighs its cons( like the client rendering and old tech issue you mentioned).

Here's a few:
- Skills and Trading system
- Inventory
- Integrated Client/Server (+API) bounce
- Fast Game Prototyping

With Unity and other engines, you have to create this from scratch which further increases your development time, unless you get help from someone or have a team to do this kind of work. Unity and Smartfox sure looks like a good combination, but we are still looking forward to MV's revival and have the engine upgraded through crowdfunding or other sorts. There's still hope.. Very Happy

It's really a matter of preference, current set of requirements and the situation you are in with your project.
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rotello
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PostSubject: Re: Multiverse vs Other Engines   Tue 26 Mar - 9:49

The world switching (which is buggy in terms of fps) feature is really a big bonus. But it would be great if this will be fixed on future versions..
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tichfuie
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PostSubject: Re: Multiverse vs Other Engines   Tue 26 Mar - 10:13

i see what you mean,

altho there is a multiplayer rpg kit available for unity and smartfox server which already have all you need to start up.

factions, classes, skills, grouping, pvp, server side collisions, inventory, targeting, leveling, items etc... they sell it for like 150 bucks. that will get you started quick if you dont want to start from scratch.



but yeah, MV is good too for the already rpg gameplay code included. + is no cost.

but 150 bucks going the unity way may improve 1000% the game dev time and rendering quality too. + unity community is highly populated so the more heads thinking is better if one gets stucked.

If i had the money i would go for the unity + smartfox path, but that is just me and i dont have the money :-(.

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rotello
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PostSubject: Re: Multiverse vs Other Engines   Tue 26 Mar - 10:51

Code:
altho there is a multiplayer rpg kit available for unity and smartfox server which already have all you need to start up.

factions, classes, skills, grouping, pvp, server side collisions, inventory, targeting, leveling, items etc... they sell it for like 150 bucks. that will get you started quick if you dont want to start from scratch.

Wow, this is really a great deal. Just checked it out and there's one that only cost 75 bucks..

http://u3d.as/content/jan-slegl/rpg-starter-kit/29G

In your situation, I would suggest creating the prototype demo first in MV, make it look impressive and attract potential small investors or partners. By that time, you can pay for this ready made kits and make the switch to Unity. cyclops
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rotello
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PostSubject: Re: Multiverse vs Other Engines   Tue 26 Mar - 11:19

Hey tichfuie,

Here's another question/issue with Unity + Smartfox server + RPG Starter kits:

Are the RPG and other kits fully integrated with Smartfox server API/code?? So... more coding/debugging to do there, don't you think?
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PostSubject: Re: Multiverse vs Other Engines   Wed 27 Mar - 0:56

I know I looked briefly into using Unity as the client and multiverse as the server but it looked like you would have to write an extensive amount. If you have seen a good mmo kit for unity let me know I would like to see how they handle some things. The one you linked doesnt look to have multiplayer capabilities.

My biggest concern is that Unity is really designed to be single player or limited multiplayer engine. Everything is setup in scene file so you either would have to just go with their scene files or write a way to stream the object position data and terrain to unity. I could not find an easy built in method for it. And you would have to do something to handle perceivers. I was also a little disappointed in their UI but that might just be that I did not spend enough time with it.
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tichfuie
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PostSubject: Re: Multiverse vs Other Engines   Wed 27 Mar - 5:45

@rotello
so far ive seen a unity + smartfox server multiplayer kit

this is supposed to be already integrated with smartfox server
so it might be worth looking at, what i like is that it has the basic mmo gameplay
i uses mysql db for spawn the game objects and persistent data.
i am intrigued by the collisions server side support it claims to have.

drawback is the kit price around 150 usd.
I wish i could have the money atm to give it a spin


@Delurin
good thing about unity is that there is a vast of developers creating so many addons and plugins and i believe
there are a few gui editors offcourse for a price :-(

and with the little time ive spent with unity , you can instantiate game objects on the fly in a scene, so that is
how the multiplayer kit developer claims to spawn npc s from mysql db

here is the link:
link to the developer forum thread



copy and paste of features:

1. General
registration inside client via php
login to the game using the MySql database
creating and saving character to MySql
choosing character
"ID Factory"

2. Character
sending keyboard press to server
moving character
Inventory
Equip/Unequip
Pickup Items/Drop Items
Stats with Regeneration
Death
"passive" Skills---> increase the hit chance and damage
Talents 2 of each class
Private Chat

3. Npc
spawnig npcs from database
structure for AI to add easy diffrent AI behavior
sending status to client( hp, level)
die

3.1 AI
Attacking event handler --> fires the attacking state
See player event handler
Not see player event handler
NothingToDo event handler---> clear events
Aggro state --> looking for player to attack
Moving to Spawnpoint state
Active state ---> active , random walk waiting of the player
Thinking state ---> thinking what ai state/handler to fire
Desires
Aggression desire --> will attack if he see the player
Attack desire
Move to target desire --> following a target (for attack or summon/animal control)
Move to Spawnpoint desire --> if to far away the npc will walk to his spawnpoint
Walk desire --> random walk
Diffrent controllers to handle the ai.

Update 0.1
-fixed crash on login/create character
-shop system (buy/sell items)
-save position of the player


Update 0.2
FIXED
- whitescreen in standalone
- Extracting referenced dlls failed.
- QuestEditor: you can now only choose npc with the type of QuestNpc


NEW

PVP:
- Editor script Config.cs added to configurate your database connection.
- some more small changes...

Update 0.3
Public Chat/ Say:

* */*
* * ** pLevel*
* * ** 0 Player
* * ** 1 Counselor
* * ** 2 Seer
* * ** 3 Gm
* * ** 4 Admin
* * ** 5 Dev
* * ** */
Create Items:

Account Manager --> Edit existing Account/Characters Preview for update 0.3:

Teleport/Scene switcher:

ADDED:
- New Editor parameters (Npc editor, item editor... and other)

Update 0.4
Saving Inventory, Skills, Stats, Talents...

Update 0.5
Collision detection

Update 0.6
Spawn npc command

Spawnpoint editor

Resurrect player

A lot of fixes and optimization in update 0.6

Update 0.7
- Fixed jump animation sync
- Fixed a performance issue (+ 80 FPS)
- Started adding Visual Node System

Update 0.8
- Npc respawn bug
- Talent effects were not always instantiated.
- Player is no longer able to repeat the quest after relog/restart server
- Banker is holding items after relog/restart server
- Saving and autoequip after relog.


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rotello
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PostSubject: Re: Multiverse vs Other Engines   Wed 27 Mar - 9:49

@tichfuie:

Well, that looks like an impressive list of features but like I said it is a matter of preference and the situation you are in with your project. What's good about MV is that it's really built for MMO and not a just plugin, so we are more comfortable with its performance than any other MMO kit. The other thing is the features base template (skill,profession,character) which is really easy to pickup and learn.

The only drawback with the engine is the incomplete and outdated nature of it, which we are now trying to figure out and hopefully more developers or members will share their efforts to improve it.


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tichfuie
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PostSubject: Re: Multiverse vs Other Engines   Wed 27 Mar - 11:01

i see what you mean,

well i still hope there will be a time when MV will get client update,which i am afraid this aint gonna
happen anytime soon.

since this same was tried 2 years ago when MV initially was release as open source even when there were a couple of
hundreds of community developers.

but now that there is only 3 or 4 of us,
chances are very slim to none.
so realistically or unfortunately we may have to just work with what we got. unless we find a way to get some funds to get coders to work on thhe C# client update.

So, this is all i can afford, plus i like the open source concept. its just the client performance and rendering quality that i would really like upgraded.

other options can be Hero engine but dont like the server being intangible by the developer, i feel that you dont have control of your game.
which is how MV was initially operating.


also BigWorld engine, if this engine the one that drives world of tanks then it is a bad ass mmo proven engine,
but yet again, cant afford it.

so, hello MV :-)
like i said before, what i like of it is the server side.


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rotello
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PostSubject: Re: Multiverse vs Other Engines   Wed 27 Mar - 11:22

Quote :
so realistically or unfortunately we may have to just work with what we got. unless we find a way to get some funds to get coders to work on thhe C# client update.

So, this is all i can afford, plus i like the open source concept. its just the client performance and rendering quality that i would really like upgraded.

Yes, agreed and that's about it. It really is discouraging at first, but coming back from and having the chance to try other engines makes it less. I have tried BGE (Blender) but the performance isn't there, have to build it from scratch or copy existing framework which will depend on the blender version it was built, plus your stuck with its licensing issue. The graphic capabilities is very nice though. I don't know about Unity, have not tried it because I'm too overwhelmed with its features, you just don't know where to start.

Re: the opensource, MIT specifically, is really the icing on the cake, which gives us freedom to do pretty much whatever we want with the engine.

If somehow we can get the old forum archives back, then this could be a great deal for us who are starting to pick the pieces up..
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PostSubject: Re: Multiverse vs Other Engines   Wed 27 Mar - 11:36

Looks like this thread is not about the frame rate world switching issue anymore. I think we should make a new one for this discussion "MV vs Other Engines", and a comparison table for new comers Laughing
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tichfuie
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PostSubject: Re: Multiverse vs Other Engines   Wed 27 Mar - 11:36

MIT is good,
one of the reasons besides server i am here.

but want to work on my game , instead of fixing the engine.
even if i were an ace on C# still a 1 man cant do the job, not even in a couple of years by fixing the engine and and then start
developing the game, just building the game is undertaking so adding the framework fix work, will probably be too much..
unless there is a team, which i assume you have since you talk in plural as if you already have a team of developers backing you up.

so , to be or not to be with MV is the question.

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tichfuie
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PostSubject: Multiverse vs Other Engines   Wed 27 Mar - 11:38

ur right,
this thread got highjacked , sorry

ill stop here.
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rotello
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PostSubject: Re: Multiverse vs Other Engines   Wed 27 Mar - 11:51

Quote :

but want to work on my game , instead of fixing the engine.
even if i were an ace on C# still a 1 man cant do the job, not even in a couple of years by fixing the engine and and then start
developing the game, just building the game is undertaking so adding the framework fix work, will probably be too much..
unless there is a team, which i assume you have since you talk in plural as if you already have a team of developers backing you up.

Here crowd sourcing/funding or outsourcing comes to place. Yes, it needs fixing but technically it needs minor fixes. I'm sure you're talking about 'The Upgrade' which MV really needs right now.

I do have a small team, most of them are paid contractors. Right now funds are not there yet and I'm in pre-production/research so luckily I have the time to make some tweaks and adjustments with the engine.
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