Wiki Down 8(

Any idea when the wiki will be back online? I kinda need to look at some things to continue with my project. If not anytime soon, does anyone have a local copy of the Wiki they could email me?

adabraxix@gmail.com is my email address if you can email me a copy.

Please get the wiki back. I would like to have a local copy too ( chen.reggie@gmail.com )

Seriously, This is the type of thing that makes people want to leave the platform and not even try to set it up, I have PM'ed 2 foundation members about this, posted in the forum and all I get form one of them is "sorry, I don't have a local copy of the wiki"

No ETA on when the wiki will be back up, No response from the member that I *think* is working on the new site for the platform, Nothing.

You guys seriously need to work on your communication skills. I can only find so much i need to do before I RUN OUT of tasks to accomplish before I am STUCK because I need the WIKI up  for refrance.

I know this may be a chore but we should seriously consider making the wiki into a downloadable PDF for times the site needs worked on, or at least move it off the main site server or what ever so it can be available as much as possible.

@Tristan - I will have some screenshots for you in the next week or so for the new site but I NEED the wiki asap or at least a zipped up local copy sent to me. I'm running out of new things to do!! lol

Well I don't have a local copy either. I was just going to check something and saw a blank page.

Now I am starting to get irritated, the god damn wiki has been down almost a week now ( as far as I know anyway ) and not one damn bit of effort  has been made to keep us informed. No one has posted any updates as to the status of the wiki, when it will be back up, IF there is a local copy on foundation servers, NOTHING.

After I have gone through all the bullshit of setting up a DEMO server for the foundation , hosting it on MY OWN HARDWARE, and not wanting anything special, the LEAST  someone could do is send me a local copy of the wiki, I KNOW someone in the foundation has to have one.

Or at the very least REPLY to pm's about it. If this continues its no wander people leave and never come back. And don't give me that "you could always look at the source to figure out what you need to do X"

That does NOT always answer questions or just creates MORE questions ....

The foundation seriously needs to do better if you expect it to do anything except stagnate like it is currently doing.

I understand your frustration.

I spent 300 bucks on BigWorld Tech indie and have zero access to the wiki there even after I made a request over a year ago for access. One of the very frustrating things is not having any means to work through things.

I was in the neighborhood and stopped by to check on MV,

looks like MV homepage has been tempered with by malicious code, so i imagine, the hackers must of f***ed up the wiki completely.


they had it coming, the same website old and outdated joomla code, and old outdated wiki aswell, no wonder it got hacked.


the same bull crap from the foundation owners, nothing new here,

I long ago i offered my unconditional free and full time  services to take over and run the foundation since the existing ones dont seem to care to even maintain it , but they denied my request and they dont even take care of it, what a shame.

here is what they told me:
they told me that i could run the MV foundation but they still will remain in the background supervising my managing and if i were to change any existing access authentications ie: VPS root password etc..
they will shut down the vps and remove me from managing MV.
so they basically wanted to hire me to run their site for free with they own authoritative conditions since they wanted to still remain the owners and take all credit.
what a joke.

no wonder MV has been down in the toilet all this time since it was released open source.


move on guys, nothing good will come up from this, i did it myself, move on to unity and ulink and love it.

but if you really want to stick with MV open up your own MV  site as i offered some here but noone followed me, since MV is MIT you can pretty much do whatever you like with the code, host it on your own MV site open up your own forums and make MV alive again from this dead valley.

It just makes me sick to my stomach what is happening here, this foundation owners really slowly murdered the MV experience and they are continuing doing it , hell, it even feels and looks like  they doing this on purpose.

anyways even i moved on to unity and ulink, i still like to see MV to succeed, so here it is again, gother up guys, and open up your own MV site from scratch, bring MV back to life.

@Demi and Atlon,
my offer still stands, you guys want to group u and create a new MV site?
if both agree, i can join too, the 3 of us can really become quite creative and start a new MV resurrection site away from this hell hole.

just email me for details so we can get this going asap.
athon already has my info

Don't know if you were addressing me here or not Tich. I went by demi on the old boards since 2007. Anyway here is where I stand.

It is open source MIT and can be used anyway we so please but the lack of documentation at this point is a sever handicap. At least for me because I haven't messed with it much since 2010. The last time I did, I was making a theme park orientated game and now that I want to do sandbox (a pure sandbox) I am seeing to much emphasis on these engines to be theme park orientated.

I just happened to get frustrated with the other engines because of the above statement and decided to maybe compile MV and test out some new ideas but then lo and behold no documentation! I can read the source and modify it so that is now decision time in my project.

I don't have time to develop a game and engine. I have to choose between one or the other and it is wearing me down to not want to bother with either anymore. Heck, I haven't done crap with code for so long I can't even do simple shit anymore.

If you want to run off and make it live, then the engine itself needs some love if it is to ever attract a serious developer. It needs to be modified to be better streaming. It needs to have a better higher performance graphics engine and better physics. The server needs to be capable of actually working in a enterprise level cluster. Currently these things are broken or partial working.

you can always reach me at whrenonline.com

Hi guys,

I'm really sorry about the issues with the Wiki and the site, I've only just got round to sorting out the issue. It seems that someone got into some of the files and inserted a JS script call in some of the header outputs. I've managed to get the Wiki back up and working (for me at least, let me know if it works for you), and I'm continuing to search through the other files on the server to check for any problematic code.

It appears that the script from a particular website (sodiummetal.com) has been inserted into a lot of other sites, according to the Google report.

Again, I'm really sorry about this guys. I know I personally haven't been around much lately, but I've been swamped with work and have barely been able to keep up with it, let alone the Platform and the new website.

AhtlonJedi - I'm sorry I didn't get back to your PMs. As I said, I've been swamped. I've got the Wiki back up and running, which I hope will help for the moment.

tichfuie - I am sorry you feel that way. I admit that we haven't been around much, which has limited the growth potential of the Platform for some time. As the communications guy, I should have been communicating with you all at all times. I didn't do that, and for that I apologise.

With regards to you wanting to take over and run the Foundation - given the recent circumstances, I think it's time to get off my high horse and face the facts - it's time to let you guys do what you need to do. I'm happy to let you guys run the Foundation and the Platform, and do what you want. Myself and Shane are not in a position to help run things, though I can imagine that Shane would like to drop in every now and then and see how stuff is progressing out of interest.
One thing I would like to say though, in my/our defence - we were never looking to take credit for the Platform. We persuaded Multiverse Networks Inc to make the software open source, because we wanted to let the community make something great..... as a community. We dedicated our time in the beginning to try and get developers interested, but no one was able to help out, because they weren't skilled enough programmers. It's only until now that people like you guys, with high-end experience, are able to actually make a difference! So don't blame us for not developing it more - we were just trying to get other people interested to help us make a platform that everyone can use and develop with.

On that note, I am open to any suggestions as to how the platform should progress. On behalf of the group (myself and Shane) that originally got the software released as MIT, I am willing to 'relinquish' rights to the name Multiverse Foundation, as well as the name Multiverse MMO Development Platform. I might also see if I can transfer the multiversemmo.com domain name as well. You may also take control of this forum, though I'd of course recommend using a new self-hosted forum on a proper website (which is what I was/am working on right at the moment). The current Work-In-Progress site is over at http://www.multiversemmo.com/wip-site, for those of you that are interested.

If you want to discuss this more, get involved in this discussion. If you have any further questions but want to talk to me privately about it, feel free to email me on tristan@multiversemmo.com or Skype me - tristanojbacon .

Cheers guys

As I mentioned in my PM to you, I have plenty of time to spend on this, I would be honored to step in and take the reigns and run with it, I do not know how much time the other guys have, but I have plenty, and I also already have an infrastructure in place in which I host other websites on including hosting the dns for them.

so I for one am in. Please  look at the info in that PM as it describes the most important parts we would need to transfer in order for this to go smoothly.

Now I just need the other guys to chime in and comment on thier availibility and thier skills so we can get the ball rollin.

The new site is lookin good but I personaly hate wordpress lol

anyway, I am game if  you guys are willing to step down .

Thank you for the PM Athlon - I've responded to that.

Just to keep everyone in the loop (which I haven't been doing much of lately), Athlon is willing to step in and take the reigns of the Foundation and therefore be the Main Man with regards to Platform Development. I've agreed to this, and once I can get the details with the Foundation files, the Wiki and the domain name sorted out, I'll be transferring ownership of these to Athlon.

I've also offered my help with the public relations side of things, which will basically involve the occasional press release for the media (you'd be surprised how much interest we generate through the high-end blogs), a few blog articles and management of the social media presence - all of which I have a lot of experience in, recently cemented by my membership in the UK's Charted Institute of Public Relations (CIPR), as well as my soon-to-be-finished University degree in Business and Public Relations, with an emphasis on Online Public Relations. 

With regards to how involved Shane wants be in the Platform and Foundation, that's not something that I can comment on (because I have no idea!) 

I'll go into this more later as things progress - it'll probably involve a blog post, an announcement on the forums and quick notice to all 54 of our Multiverse newsletter subscribers. 

Athlon - any particular reason why you hate WordPress?

This is just my opinion:

 

For starters I want to thank Tristam for the efforts he put into getting the multiverse developers to release the code base to open source. I was there when it was being discussed on the old boards. Without his efforts MV would have died completely so let’s not point fingers and blame on the state of things.

 

One sometimes does not take into account the amount of efforts it requires to keep things running. It has happened to other open source projects in the past and will continue to happen in the future. Hell, it even happens to closed source or in some cases the developer switches ownership and discontinues the current program in lieu of another. So we have to live with what we get and try to make it work or alter it to our own design goals.

 

Won’t matter who is running it if there is no active development of the engine and tools it will never get fully off the ground. Current competitive engines like Hero, Unity and Unreal (even though not massively) have a very active development and a growing user base. They have better graphics and engine functionality than the MV core. When MV core was released it was the state of the art but it has aged and it is not up to todays standards so it has a lot of catching up to do. In order for MV to be competitive it needs to be more unique. 

 

I was not going to get active here and had been stealth mode for a few months but ended up active because I can’t get it to work like it did before and wanted to find out what was changed. After compiling it I can’t get it to work because it is missing the core update scripts (not the client but the core engine version comparison script) So I am back to obsolete code which makes it useless. I will eventually work through the code base and fix it but I wanted to cut down the time to do it so I ended up making myself visible.

 

Now I wanted to take the core engine and do something with it that may not be in a direction others want it to go and I am not 100% sure it would work anyway so I kind of regret putting my nose out in this. If you all want to continue the theme park design then go for it but I have another plan and intend to keep plugging away at it. As an example, I want to remove the external tools and incorporate them into the game itself. I want to move away form a single development machine and into a live system with active subscribers and developers using the same base.

 

It probably won’t set well with you guys so I best bow out here and now.

Well I also have  differing plans than everyone else on the forum but that isnt the point. One thing I have been looking at in terms of improving the platform is

A. upgrading to the latest axiom release OR replacing axiom with straight up Ogre3d being axiom is simply a heavyly modded version of Ogre3d this may be the most feasable.

B. Replacing Axiom with Irrlicht 3d which is a very fast and much more up to date graphics engine and is also opensource and written in C# , already has compatibility with Ruby, Lua, Java, Python thus a port might be possable.

C. We really need to get the word out to prospective developers as you have mentioned as well as Tristan thus we will possibly have the capability of improving  on platform development. What kind of game you make isn't the issue as that is left to the imagination of the developer, HOW you make it with Multiverse is. Though there would be some differences in the code  in respect to specific things in your game, Most things would be coded the same or very similar regardless of the "genre" at the core level.

D. I was'nt really pointing any fingers but more like trying to get Tristans Attention as I figured he probably had access to a local copy of the wiki, I have been in a simalar situation as he is and I know from experiance, it is not always possible to stay on top of every little thing one has going on in thier life. But I do want to see Multiverse right up there with hero engine ( cloud based now ,ewwww ) , Big wrold tech, cry engine , ect and I feel this is doable with the right core team  of people working twards that goal. See with the platform being MIT , the founadtion can still offer an MIT licensed version which would have many of its features retained and ALSO for funding, do what Unity 3d and a few others do, Offer an "advanced" version and plugins for both versions under paid licensing, Thus retaining the Indie development crowd and being able to generate funding for further development, add campaigns, and what not.

E. I originaly started with the platform when it was at Version 1.1 and not opensource. And though there have been a few improvements since then not much has changed, This is a concern as like you said , Axiom is dated and there are far more capible graphics engines out there now, Thus upgrading and or replacing Axiom will be a MAJOR priority.

ok well this kinda turned into a speach so I will leave it here for now but suffice it to say, I have alot of things I would like to improve upon and add so, with some luck , these improvments wont take long.

That's good then. I already downloaded the latest Axiom a couple weeks ago but not sure it is the best solution. I have Irrlicht . Not sure it is a good choice because it would require major reworking of the core system and same goes for Softpixel. I can't test it until I get this server squared away and I just haven't gotten motivated to do it.

I stopped programming professionally like 15 years ago. I just hated it as a profession. An opportunity opened to do field engineering so I took it. I took a job 9 years ago that is zero stress and I really enjoy it. I swore off working for other and only work for myself when it comes to programming although I may get involved here since I already started the port.

The key word here is motivation and I lack it since I shut down my game project in April.

However, before this port gets done someone needs to write or compile a chm/acrobat of the wiki in hard form so we can get a hard copy in case wiki goes down again. I really think that a hard copy is a must solution. Just about any engine I have messed with over the last decade have a hard copy of the current release. Then documentation of not just the engine but of the examples and how/why they are used.

Someone needs to get a package installer made for Linux box that will install the server, web and configure it. Hell it can be a Perl script for all intended purposes. I think by making a set requirement of being a Linux server would be a best solution. Running a VB is common practice now days and MV works fine under a VB.

Just by making it easier to get it up and running and having documentation will probably draw in new users. 

And this needs a roadmap of realistic goals.

Things to add to the list:

Revamp of the engines physics.
Terrain editing tools.
Terrain holes for a seamless world.
Internal debugging interface.
Built in weather system.
Real time of day.


A lot of work to be done here and not many active developers.

I'll stop here with my speach

I agree about making the server a Linux based platform, I do not see the logic in why the previous foundation members were even messing with running servers on a windows xp platform. NO ONE used windows xp for any kind of production server. NT/2003/2008 Ill give you that but XP? Dont get me wrong, I understand wanting to make the platform as easy to use as possible, however, this is not realm crafter, Anyone intrested in using the platform should have at least a basic level of understanding how to use linux anyway if their goal is to make an mmo. It is not something you can make with WYSIWYG systems or drag and drop game creation systems. Our users and developers should  have at bare minimum intermediate linux expirence, Web development , python, java, and xml .

I also agree we do need a pdf hardcopy of the wiki, I can start on this but I will still need the accual files for the Wiki site to convert them which I am working on. Once I have root access to the VPS hosting the site and the wiki I can download the files and start on that.

As for the linux package, Ubuntu Server 12.0.4 ( what I am using ) seems to come with everything needed with the exception of the java connector and the multiverse files in which there are package installers for. Granted we could probably setup a package that contains the server, Java connector, configure the mysql server , Place the patch files in the apache directory being served, but there are still some things that would need to be done by hand, On my website for example , I have a php page that new players use to directly create their accounts on the game server from the website, Something like that would still require properly configuring  apache/php, writing the code for the page, ect. So I am not sure just how far we could go with a linux package before it seems like we are almost writing peoples games for them lol.

In the case of setting up the platform in general, I also thing we should document how to seperate the back end from the accual game server. Any serious developer that wants to run at a production level would do this anyway.

While it is possible to run everything on one machine, it is not a wise idea as it makes the scalability of the platform almost a mute point. Get 10 - 15 zones running on one machine along with the rest of the platform and back end and you will start eating up system resources in no time. So I think we should maybe not make this a requirement BUT i do think we should STRONGLY sugest people setup the platform correctly to industry standards from the start, seperating the back end from the server once you have 50 zones live would be a nightmare lol better to do it right from day one if you can lol.